I am wholly in favor of blasting Trump with all the fire and brimstone that our prosecutors can aim at him, but I don't want their salvos to ricochet and attack Democrats and liberals.
We may be indicting him for transgressions regarding the way in which the hush money to Stormy Daniels was conveyed and reported, but that's not how most Americans will perceive it.
As Dale Bumpers said at the impeachment trial of Bill Cllinton, "When they say it's not about sex, it's about sex." In the media, Stormy Daniels' sultry, seductive and sallacious countenance will make everything else shrink in significance and will make it impossible for most middle Americans to have any comprhension of the reporting violations Trump committed. And they will reason: After Years of investigating Trump for his ties to Russia (And that's an understatement; its more like he was an agent of Russia ) and the January 6 insurrection, the little mannered men of the democratic party are gong after him for sex.
On top of that, we may be going into a recession soon: Higher interest rates usually do depress the economy.
Trump may be wildly unpopular now, but the decision to sue Trump in this masochistic fashion, in conjunction with an imminent recession, may put Trump in the drivers seat in 24. And that madman will drive this country off of a cliff if he had the chance. Please see this article: https://davidgottfried.substack.com/p/damn-the-masochistic-dems-they-may
Trump has turned the Republican party into his “reality television show” brand. As Trump would say any publicity is good publicity. This indictment is putting Trump center stage again in the American conscience again. He probably revels in it. What will the Trump America reality television show finale be? Taking the oath of office from a prison cell? That’ll definitely blow the ratings roof off!
It seems to me the NYC case is revenge for the blue semen stained dress. There is plenty of bad and sad about Trump. Sad is that he is so demonized by the media. Could part of that demonizing have arisen from the fact that he announced at the beginning of his first White House run that he would end 2 fruitless but hugely profitable wars? As soon as it became apparent that he was a serious candidate, the venom from the press became like nothing I've ever seen. When he got into office he did end one war, in Iraq, and forced the end of the other.
Maybe other indictments are coming. But if this Stormy Daniels story is all there is against Trump, it's pathetic.
Interesting theory, Stephen, and thanks for sharing it. Payback for Clinton is plausible but there are a couple of problems with it. First, it was Obama, not Trump, who wound down our two "forever wars", though at least Trump didn't get them revved up again as, say, President Jeb Bush might have. The disgust with Trump and desire to nail him, which I share, has been powered by many things, but war fever is not one of them. It's not the war profiteers who have led the charge against him. As you look for reasons Trump is demonized in the media, you might start with his long history as a mean, vulgar liar with an absolutely irrefutable case of malignant narcissism. When Hillary said in 2016 that he was unfit for office, she didn't know the half of it. And now, of course, he says if reelected he would "terminate" the Constitution. And in case you're wondering, Stormy Daniels is not all there is against Trump. Not by a long shot.
Obama: troop surges and the normalization of drone warfare and resulting collateral civilian deaths.
Trump: withdrawal from Iraq and a timetable to do the same in Afghanistan.
(I voted for Obama first time around.)
Personally, I hope there's a jury that will convict Trump in Georgia, having heard him on the recorded phone call with state officials.
I remember driving my daughter home from 1st grade, with NPR on the radio, and her asking me if she could have a semen stained dress. I don't believe the country needs more of that.
No Stephen, demonizing Trump had nothing to do with Trump announcing he would end 2 wars if elected. It has nothing to do with Clinton’s escapades either. It has only to do with Trump.
Trump attempted to extort a foreign head of state by withholding promised military equipment unless the head of state would agree to repeat a series of lies about Biden. Trump also reneged on a very important agreement the Obama administration made with Iran and didn’t bother to replace that agreement with another one, so now Iran has developed nuclear weapons.
He made a huge stink about NATO which we now know beyond doubt was done on Putin’s behalf.
When asked about Russian interference in the 2016 election, Trump said Putin denied interfering and that was good enough for him. Then, when Trump & Putin attended a meeting in Helsinki, NPR reported on 7/17/18 “Trump was asked directly which one he believed: his own intelligence community or Putin. In so many words, Trump gave the answer: Putin. Sen. John McCain, the late Arizona Republican, called it "one of the most disgraceful performances by an American president in memory."
After making a big deal about building a wall on our southern border “...Trump illegally circumvented Congress’ “power of the purse” by transferring $2.5 billion in Dept. of Defense funds to construct portions of the border wall.” Courthouse News.com,
6/26/20.
Trump’s longtime ally & confidant was indicted for a scheme in which he and ‘We Build the Wall’ were co-defendants in a federal case alleging money laundering, fraud and conspiracy, but Trump gave Bannon a pardon for that alleged illegal activity.
APnews.com, 2/28/23. He was also charged with pocketing more than $1 million in donations to the wall-building effort. By the way, the portion of the wall that was completed has already fallen down.
Trump boasted that he threw away the “Pandemic
Playbook” the Obama admin. had put together for
what to do if there’s a pandemic and handled the Covid pandemic so abysmally that hundreds of thousands of people died unnecessarily.
A GOP-led Senate panel released a report Tuesday that details extensive contacts between Trump campaign advisers and Russian intelligence in 2016.
A multi-year investigation of Russian interference in the 2016 election at taxpayer expense ended with accusations that unethical actions by special counsel – John Durham – and ex-attorney general William Barr”weaponized” the US Dept.of Justice (DoJ) to help Trump. The Guardian. com, 2/10/23.
What I’ve outlined here are several instances of Trump’s illegal and immoral conduct. There are many more. I’ve noted my sources to make it easier for you to check for yourself if you care to.
Susan, you begin by saying the media venom did not begin when he was running for president, then go on to list Trump's many transgressions after he got into office, none of which I disputed or mentioned. He's responsible for ending 2 useless but profitable, for the military industrial complex, wars.
I believe that is a good thing and that the nefarious influence of Washington war mongers is more pervasive than anyone in the media wants to discuss.
Your reply kind of underscores that. You'd rather continue to demonize a very flawed human being than address the evil and violence of endless war for profit. I'm not going to address your answer point by point.
The guy did at least two good things by ending 2 wars. And I don't really care how high class hookers he paid.
Stephen, responding with, “You'd rather continue to demonize a very flawed human being than address the evil and violence of endless war for profit.” isn’t
accurate. That’s your assumption. Your comment
didn’t set up an “either-or” proposition that included “endless war for profit.”
My reply was intended to refute your premise that Trump doesn’t deserve what you refer to as “demonization” of his character. And as Jonathon pointed out, “ ... it was Obama, not Trump, who wound down our two "forever wars.”
As far as withdrawing troops from Iraq is concerned, he intentionally poisoned the operation by agreeing
to let approximately 5,000 Taliban out of prison right before he set the agreed upon date for withdrawal, knowing his opponent for the presidency would be
forced to abide by the agreements Trump made.
In my opinion, Trump most assuredly deserves to be
demonized and I hope he’s tried in court for the many criminal acts he committed while in office, among them: multiple counts of obstruction of justice, multiple counts of theft of government property, multiple counts of fraud, inciting a riot, conspiracy to commit sedition & sedition.
I just "flashed" on another issue regarding Fla. Gov. deSantis (INSantis?) and the matter of Trump's extradition to New York:
As an elected public official, he was required to take an oath when sworn in to "support" the US Constitution (AS WRITTEN and not as he'd like it to read). Now, the First Amendment likely protects his "right" to utter all manner of stupidities (despite his "Hah-vahd" education) about his likely refusal to extradite Trump to NY.
BUT, as Governor of Fla. he would have no choice but to do EXACTLY THAT or be in violation of his oath of office! And that would merit impeachment and removal, in my opinion, but that is unlikely. OF COURSE, Fla. voters COULD take all that into account in any event.
I take issue with this 'DeSantis is smart' narrative. I'm not saying he is some kind of idiot, although I will say he is a bullying, mean little SOB.
But other than going to an Ivy League school....which we have come to learn is ABSOLUTELY no guarantee of high intelligence, not to mention emotional maturity...nothing about him seems to indicate anything more than maybe an average intellect. And he certainly lacks managerial competence.
By 2016, after 240 years of independence, Americans should have learned how to pick a decent presidential wannabe from a field of 2 or 3 dozen contenders. Well, we goofed! Yes, Hillary won the popular vote count, but Donald won the Electoral College count. We were stuck with a lemon, and we had to throw him out. But he kicked and screamed, and spit and bit, and his face turned blue in the process. Now he's throwing stones, breaking windows, and threatening to unleash death and disaster on the people of the country that rejected him. Of course, the only civil and proper response is to bring him to court, prosecute his crimes, convict him, and send him to a dungeon.
Thank you for standing up Jonathan. Democrats, independents and Republicans need to hear this whether or they agree with it or not. The Trump Intimidation Syndrome is as real as the stunned response of a crime victim to a criminal’s craven, aggressive attack. To save our lives and our country we need to snap out of it.
I agree. we need to treat ex-Presidents as exactly what they are - citizens of the United States. (and all of the better ex-Presidents, from Herbert Hoover to Harry Truman to Jimmy Carter, have understood this). we either are a nation of laws, or not. and, to be one, we need to apply the law when and where it should be applied
It USED to be that a former President reverted to the official title (s)he had BEFORE being elected President, because the US has ONLY one "President." But that rule is now mostly violated by the ignoramuses that keep addressing former Presidents as "Mr. President." "GENERAL" Eisenhower was the best example thereof.
But not Obama, not Bush, not Carter, not Trump nor Clinton should be thus addressed! They revert to their FORMER titles of "Senator," "Governor," etc. Poor Mr. Trump had NEVER held any public office before going into the White House, so he is merely "Mr." Trump! NONE of them is now a "President," regardless of having been thus elected.
Carter does not like it when he's called "Mr. President," for the reasons you mention. He's fine with "President Carter" and so am I. They need not revert to their prior position. They can be called "President so-and-so" just as former ambassadors are still accorded the title....
Don't break out the champagne just yet. Remember: an indictment is merely a formal ACCUSATION. Trump is presumed innocent unless/until a jury says otherwise.
Too bad. Even Trump gets the rights of all Americans!
Well said, Jon. Hopefully this is just the beginning. By the way, my hope is that he is convicted of everything now being investigated in all venues, that he is sentenced to prison and that Biden commutes his sentences. A win-win.
I think it would be a big political win for Biden. TRump, if convicted and sentenced, will have his reputation(whatever is left of it) totally destroyed, and as a convicted felon, would no longer be politically viable. Biden could "go high" and in the process, tRump would have nothing left to say. Just my thoughts. I hope it gets to this point and he is convicted on all charges in NY, GA and January 6.
I strongly disagree. His indictment changes nothing about a system that has excused war criminals and sociopaths for decades. If Barack Obama had not so blithely excused George W Bush, Dick Cheney and the torture memo authors with "we need to look to towards the future and not back at the past" or some such nonsense Trump might have never been elected. Obama himself is a war criminal, many other countries we offer military assistance to and sell our weapons to are overseen by dictators such as Benjamin Netanyahu or MBS of Saudi Arabia, yet there is little or no outrage from the same liberals who are rabid about Putin and Ukraine. Our double standards and our warped priorities are the problem, and Trump being indicted only reinforces these issues. On a more basic level, is indictment does nothing to change the misery inflicted on the working class and poor by both parties tacit support of the cancer capitalism that is metastasizing unchecked.
Barry, thanks for weighing in. While I strongly disagree that Obama is a war criminal, you're right that indicting Trump doesn't bring systemic change, only a bit of possible accountability. And while I believe I'm rational--not rabid--in my fierce support for Ukraine, you are correct that there is too little if any outrage (and I'm including myself in this) at what MBS did in Yemen and Bibi and other Israeli leaders have done on the West Bank.
I am wholly in favor of blasting Trump with all the fire and brimstone that our prosecutors can aim at him, but I don't want their salvos to ricochet and attack Democrats and liberals.
We may be indicting him for transgressions regarding the way in which the hush money to Stormy Daniels was conveyed and reported, but that's not how most Americans will perceive it.
As Dale Bumpers said at the impeachment trial of Bill Cllinton, "When they say it's not about sex, it's about sex." In the media, Stormy Daniels' sultry, seductive and sallacious countenance will make everything else shrink in significance and will make it impossible for most middle Americans to have any comprhension of the reporting violations Trump committed. And they will reason: After Years of investigating Trump for his ties to Russia (And that's an understatement; its more like he was an agent of Russia ) and the January 6 insurrection, the little mannered men of the democratic party are gong after him for sex.
On top of that, we may be going into a recession soon: Higher interest rates usually do depress the economy.
Trump may be wildly unpopular now, but the decision to sue Trump in this masochistic fashion, in conjunction with an imminent recession, may put Trump in the drivers seat in 24. And that madman will drive this country off of a cliff if he had the chance. Please see this article: https://davidgottfried.substack.com/p/damn-the-masochistic-dems-they-may
Trump has turned the Republican party into his “reality television show” brand. As Trump would say any publicity is good publicity. This indictment is putting Trump center stage again in the American conscience again. He probably revels in it. What will the Trump America reality television show finale be? Taking the oath of office from a prison cell? That’ll definitely blow the ratings roof off!
It seems to me the NYC case is revenge for the blue semen stained dress. There is plenty of bad and sad about Trump. Sad is that he is so demonized by the media. Could part of that demonizing have arisen from the fact that he announced at the beginning of his first White House run that he would end 2 fruitless but hugely profitable wars? As soon as it became apparent that he was a serious candidate, the venom from the press became like nothing I've ever seen. When he got into office he did end one war, in Iraq, and forced the end of the other.
Maybe other indictments are coming. But if this Stormy Daniels story is all there is against Trump, it's pathetic.
Interesting theory, Stephen, and thanks for sharing it. Payback for Clinton is plausible but there are a couple of problems with it. First, it was Obama, not Trump, who wound down our two "forever wars", though at least Trump didn't get them revved up again as, say, President Jeb Bush might have. The disgust with Trump and desire to nail him, which I share, has been powered by many things, but war fever is not one of them. It's not the war profiteers who have led the charge against him. As you look for reasons Trump is demonized in the media, you might start with his long history as a mean, vulgar liar with an absolutely irrefutable case of malignant narcissism. When Hillary said in 2016 that he was unfit for office, she didn't know the half of it. And now, of course, he says if reelected he would "terminate" the Constitution. And in case you're wondering, Stormy Daniels is not all there is against Trump. Not by a long shot.
Obama: troop surges and the normalization of drone warfare and resulting collateral civilian deaths.
Trump: withdrawal from Iraq and a timetable to do the same in Afghanistan.
(I voted for Obama first time around.)
Personally, I hope there's a jury that will convict Trump in Georgia, having heard him on the recorded phone call with state officials.
I remember driving my daughter home from 1st grade, with NPR on the radio, and her asking me if she could have a semen stained dress. I don't believe the country needs more of that.
Thank you for replying to my comment.
No Stephen, demonizing Trump had nothing to do with Trump announcing he would end 2 wars if elected. It has nothing to do with Clinton’s escapades either. It has only to do with Trump.
Trump attempted to extort a foreign head of state by withholding promised military equipment unless the head of state would agree to repeat a series of lies about Biden. Trump also reneged on a very important agreement the Obama administration made with Iran and didn’t bother to replace that agreement with another one, so now Iran has developed nuclear weapons.
He made a huge stink about NATO which we now know beyond doubt was done on Putin’s behalf.
When asked about Russian interference in the 2016 election, Trump said Putin denied interfering and that was good enough for him. Then, when Trump & Putin attended a meeting in Helsinki, NPR reported on 7/17/18 “Trump was asked directly which one he believed: his own intelligence community or Putin. In so many words, Trump gave the answer: Putin. Sen. John McCain, the late Arizona Republican, called it "one of the most disgraceful performances by an American president in memory."
After making a big deal about building a wall on our southern border “...Trump illegally circumvented Congress’ “power of the purse” by transferring $2.5 billion in Dept. of Defense funds to construct portions of the border wall.” Courthouse News.com,
6/26/20.
Trump’s longtime ally & confidant was indicted for a scheme in which he and ‘We Build the Wall’ were co-defendants in a federal case alleging money laundering, fraud and conspiracy, but Trump gave Bannon a pardon for that alleged illegal activity.
APnews.com, 2/28/23. He was also charged with pocketing more than $1 million in donations to the wall-building effort. By the way, the portion of the wall that was completed has already fallen down.
Trump boasted that he threw away the “Pandemic
Playbook” the Obama admin. had put together for
what to do if there’s a pandemic and handled the Covid pandemic so abysmally that hundreds of thousands of people died unnecessarily.
A GOP-led Senate panel released a report Tuesday that details extensive contacts between Trump campaign advisers and Russian intelligence in 2016.
A multi-year investigation of Russian interference in the 2016 election at taxpayer expense ended with accusations that unethical actions by special counsel – John Durham – and ex-attorney general William Barr”weaponized” the US Dept.of Justice (DoJ) to help Trump. The Guardian. com, 2/10/23.
What I’ve outlined here are several instances of Trump’s illegal and immoral conduct. There are many more. I’ve noted my sources to make it easier for you to check for yourself if you care to.
Susan, you begin by saying the media venom did not begin when he was running for president, then go on to list Trump's many transgressions after he got into office, none of which I disputed or mentioned. He's responsible for ending 2 useless but profitable, for the military industrial complex, wars.
I believe that is a good thing and that the nefarious influence of Washington war mongers is more pervasive than anyone in the media wants to discuss.
Your reply kind of underscores that. You'd rather continue to demonize a very flawed human being than address the evil and violence of endless war for profit. I'm not going to address your answer point by point.
The guy did at least two good things by ending 2 wars. And I don't really care how high class hookers he paid.
Stephen, responding with, “You'd rather continue to demonize a very flawed human being than address the evil and violence of endless war for profit.” isn’t
accurate. That’s your assumption. Your comment
didn’t set up an “either-or” proposition that included “endless war for profit.”
My reply was intended to refute your premise that Trump doesn’t deserve what you refer to as “demonization” of his character. And as Jonathon pointed out, “ ... it was Obama, not Trump, who wound down our two "forever wars.”
As far as withdrawing troops from Iraq is concerned, he intentionally poisoned the operation by agreeing
to let approximately 5,000 Taliban out of prison right before he set the agreed upon date for withdrawal, knowing his opponent for the presidency would be
forced to abide by the agreements Trump made.
In my opinion, Trump most assuredly deserves to be
demonized and I hope he’s tried in court for the many criminal acts he committed while in office, among them: multiple counts of obstruction of justice, multiple counts of theft of government property, multiple counts of fraud, inciting a riot, conspiracy to commit sedition & sedition.
I did not vote for Trump either time. But I didn't vote for HC or Biden either. I vote Green.
I just "flashed" on another issue regarding Fla. Gov. deSantis (INSantis?) and the matter of Trump's extradition to New York:
As an elected public official, he was required to take an oath when sworn in to "support" the US Constitution (AS WRITTEN and not as he'd like it to read). Now, the First Amendment likely protects his "right" to utter all manner of stupidities (despite his "Hah-vahd" education) about his likely refusal to extradite Trump to NY.
BUT, as Governor of Fla. he would have no choice but to do EXACTLY THAT or be in violation of his oath of office! And that would merit impeachment and removal, in my opinion, but that is unlikely. OF COURSE, Fla. voters COULD take all that into account in any event.
Thanks, Watkins...The man isn't exactly covering himself in glory.
I take issue with this 'DeSantis is smart' narrative. I'm not saying he is some kind of idiot, although I will say he is a bullying, mean little SOB.
But other than going to an Ivy League school....which we have come to learn is ABSOLUTELY no guarantee of high intelligence, not to mention emotional maturity...nothing about him seems to indicate anything more than maybe an average intellect. And he certainly lacks managerial competence.
By 2016, after 240 years of independence, Americans should have learned how to pick a decent presidential wannabe from a field of 2 or 3 dozen contenders. Well, we goofed! Yes, Hillary won the popular vote count, but Donald won the Electoral College count. We were stuck with a lemon, and we had to throw him out. But he kicked and screamed, and spit and bit, and his face turned blue in the process. Now he's throwing stones, breaking windows, and threatening to unleash death and disaster on the people of the country that rejected him. Of course, the only civil and proper response is to bring him to court, prosecute his crimes, convict him, and send him to a dungeon.
I'm with you until the dungeon part, JoAnne. We don';t want to stoop to Trump's level.
Hear, hear! I’m with you 100 percent on this.
!Thanks, Tom
Thank you for standing up Jonathan. Democrats, independents and Republicans need to hear this whether or they agree with it or not. The Trump Intimidation Syndrome is as real as the stunned response of a crime victim to a criminal’s craven, aggressive attack. To save our lives and our country we need to snap out of it.
I like that comparison of the public to a crime victim. Thanks, Scotty!
I agree. we need to treat ex-Presidents as exactly what they are - citizens of the United States. (and all of the better ex-Presidents, from Herbert Hoover to Harry Truman to Jimmy Carter, have understood this). we either are a nation of laws, or not. and, to be one, we need to apply the law when and where it should be applied
It USED to be that a former President reverted to the official title (s)he had BEFORE being elected President, because the US has ONLY one "President." But that rule is now mostly violated by the ignoramuses that keep addressing former Presidents as "Mr. President." "GENERAL" Eisenhower was the best example thereof.
But not Obama, not Bush, not Carter, not Trump nor Clinton should be thus addressed! They revert to their FORMER titles of "Senator," "Governor," etc. Poor Mr. Trump had NEVER held any public office before going into the White House, so he is merely "Mr." Trump! NONE of them is now a "President," regardless of having been thus elected.
It annoys me no end to hear that nonsense.
Carter does not like it when he's called "Mr. President," for the reasons you mention. He's fine with "President Carter" and so am I. They need not revert to their prior position. They can be called "President so-and-so" just as former ambassadors are still accorded the title....
it's a great point.
I am surprised editors and publishers don't crack down on that. That is just pure ignorance, as far as I am concerned.
WAT
NO FOOLIN'!
Don't break out the champagne just yet. Remember: an indictment is merely a formal ACCUSATION. Trump is presumed innocent unless/until a jury says otherwise.
Too bad. Even Trump gets the rights of all Americans!
Well said, Jon. Hopefully this is just the beginning. By the way, my hope is that he is convicted of everything now being investigated in all venues, that he is sentenced to prison and that Biden commutes his sentences. A win-win.
I agree with everything but the commutations....
It’s the politic thing to do. tRump’s reputation will be the real punishment. Biden will look like a mensch!
Lisa, why commute Trump’s sentences?
I think it would be a big political win for Biden. TRump, if convicted and sentenced, will have his reputation(whatever is left of it) totally destroyed, and as a convicted felon, would no longer be politically viable. Biden could "go high" and in the process, tRump would have nothing left to say. Just my thoughts. I hope it gets to this point and he is convicted on all charges in NY, GA and January 6.
There is some justice left in the world! Trump is being held accountable! Finding him guilty would be icing on the cake!
I strongly disagree. His indictment changes nothing about a system that has excused war criminals and sociopaths for decades. If Barack Obama had not so blithely excused George W Bush, Dick Cheney and the torture memo authors with "we need to look to towards the future and not back at the past" or some such nonsense Trump might have never been elected. Obama himself is a war criminal, many other countries we offer military assistance to and sell our weapons to are overseen by dictators such as Benjamin Netanyahu or MBS of Saudi Arabia, yet there is little or no outrage from the same liberals who are rabid about Putin and Ukraine. Our double standards and our warped priorities are the problem, and Trump being indicted only reinforces these issues. On a more basic level, is indictment does nothing to change the misery inflicted on the working class and poor by both parties tacit support of the cancer capitalism that is metastasizing unchecked.
Barry, thanks for weighing in. While I strongly disagree that Obama is a war criminal, you're right that indicting Trump doesn't bring systemic change, only a bit of possible accountability. And while I believe I'm rational--not rabid--in my fierce support for Ukraine, you are correct that there is too little if any outrage (and I'm including myself in this) at what MBS did in Yemen and Bibi and other Israeli leaders have done on the West Bank.
Obama was a great liberal president its your kind of attitude that gave us trump
Correct. If not for Jill Stein, Hillary might have won. Might have. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/11/13576798/jill-stein-third-party-donald-trump-win
Might this response beg the question?